Carrie Hays

Senior Consultant

Out of the frying pan and into the fire! That’s how I describe my path to Roger Schwarz and Associates. In a “previous life” my aspiration was to become a chef. My first real job post-cooking school was as a chef for a large hotel. In that role, I learned two things: I wasn’t a great cook and the real challenge of preparing food at the scale found in hotels was managing a team. Realizing that management intrigued me more than cooking, I switched paths into the field of Organizational Development.

One of the most important aspects of my OD education -in addition to my Master’s degree – was studying the Mutual Learning approach with Roger Schwarz. When I completed the foundational workshop, I felt a bit like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz: I realized the world wasn’t so black and white and that the way I saw the world didn’t provide a complete picture. There were many possibilities and everyone has different—and legitimate—needs. By studying the Mutual Learning approach, I became regretfully aware of the mistakes I had made as a manager and came to see how I contributed to the very problems which I attributed to others. I wish that I had known about the Mutual Learning approach when I was running a kitchen! But as my fluency with the Mutual Learning approach grew, my regret was replaced by excitement about a way of being and working that has made me a much more effective leader and consultant – and, I think, a better person. Over time, I’ve come to see the extraordinary results that the Mutual Learning approach produces in the lives of clients. Here’s a brief example: One client, having learned the Mutual Learning approach, worked with his family attorney and produced copies of emails in a court of law that illustrated his ability to work together with family members productively and compassionately to make difficult custody decisions. I’ve worked with clients around the world, providing leadership development, group effectiveness and organizational change consulting for such organizations as Marriott International, the County of Napa, California, and the San Francisco Travel Association (formerly San Francisco Convention & Visitors Bureau). Living in Napa Valley allows me to enjoy great food and wine, to ride my bike among the vineyards and swim with a Masters swimming group. I’m still not a really great cook, but that’s another story…

See the full team